Episode 5: Discussing the Goatman with J.Nathan Couch -Author of "Goatman - Flesh or Folklore"

Participant #1:
We are back. Nice. It's been a little bit. Yeah, it's been over a week. Yeah, I know. Like, it's been kind of unnatural. Like, we've been trying to, like, keep up with this, but it's a little tough trying to balance everything. Yes, it is. But I think we've managed to get ourselves pumped up, especially since the podcast has performed. People are listening. People are reaching out. People are willing to talk. They want to hear the stories. They want to tell their own stories. It's a good feeling. There's no judgment on this end. We're just kind of feeling out the story, listening to it, trying to understand it with you, if we can. And hopefully, when we've done enough of these, we can start connecting you listeners together to help each other figure these things out or maybe share information. Tonight, we're talking to a special guest. You've put this together? Yeah. Okay. J. Nathan couch, who is the author of goatman flesh or folklore. Am I saying it right? Yeah. Flesh or folklore. Okay. Released in 2014. He's a published author. He had a book previous to that, more of a paranormal ghost book. 2012 is when that one came out. Yeah, that one was washington county paranormal wisconsin legend trip. Okay. So I know there's going to be folks out there that have read these two books, and there's going to be folks out there that recognize jay, and that's great. We are not going to be doing the spiderman thing, though. We're not going to go into a long origin of jay and tell his story. Basically, his upcomings again on another podcast, which I'm sure he's probably a little tired of telling it himself. Yeah. But what we do want to do is get him in here and get his opinion on a few things, and then we'd like to hear some of his stories and some of the things that he's done and maybe see if we can't trade some information with him. I think that would be really cool. And hopefully, if there's anybody out there who's seen something similar to what jay has to say, then maybe you'll hear something and perk your ears up to and we can all kind of keep going on this together. Before we get into the night's guest, we would like to ask anybody out there that has an unexplained story they've had some kind of folklore or legend around their area. We would like to hear your stories. And if you're not comfortable coming on the podcast and doing an interview, just type it out and send it to encounters@kyxfiles.com. All right. So if you're ready, I'm ready. Let's give him a call. Hello, nate. I'm james. Well, I go by tyler and denny here. Hey, how's it going, man? It's an honor to get you your second author on this podcast right now, so I'm actually pretty stoked. The most exciting one, in my opinion. Oh, yeah. I mean, so far, I'm really excited, I have to say. Everywhere we've looked for research regarding the Goat Man, everything points to you that has to feel good. I mean, according to the Internet, you are the authority. I was sort of in the right place in the right time with that research. So, yeah, it was a phenomenon for some reason, was kind of overlooked or not thought plentiful enough to take a serious examination. And I was able to get that research done and it ended up being the first book of its kind, which is pretty unique because the field of paranormal and cryptozoology and unexplained mysteries, I mean, every topic has been covered so much by so many great experts. So it was a real really amazing that I was able to get that book out there before anybody else. Well, we're glad you did. How long did you research that book before you had it published? It's been a few years now since it came in. I'm trying to recall. It was at least a couple of years because the rudimentary research began when I wrote my first book called Washington County Paranormal, which was about folklore and legends and hauntings in Washington County, Wisconsin, where I live. And I learned about Gomen doing that research. And that was the most fascinating thing in that book, I thought. So I wanted to know as much about as I could. And much to my surprise, I actually found an eyewitness to the Wisconsin version of the creature that I could interview because I never thought I'd find anybody who had actually saw this. I thought I would just get he said, she said friend of a friend, lore. And as soon as I talked to him, I got his story where he actually saw this thing walking through the woods, described it smell, he heard it speaking in English, actually, which is, I think the most amazing thing about the whole siding. And that just made me passionate about it. Like I had to know about how many versions of it there were. Was it just in Wisconsin? Was it other parts of the country? How did it all fit together? And that's what Goat Man Flesh or Folklore, the second book ended up being about just kind of taking all these regional versions of the creature and trying to put together an overview of the general phenomena, right? Yeah. And I've noticed that before we plan these little podcasts, we kind of go into a subject and we're both really fascinated with cryptozoology and all the study of these folklore and such. And we were actually in the midst of researching for more follow up to the Dog Man episodes that we've been working on. And there's the Goat Man right in the middle of this. And we're like, oh, well, there's something here. And here in Kentucky, we have our very own Goat Man legend. So we thought, man, in the Midwest there's a lot of seder sightings, which is, of course, people say goat man is a seder or farm, and there's also a lot of dog man or werewolf sightings in the Midwest, like Michigan, Minnesota, Wisconsin, sure. Some other states, too. And Linda Godfrey, who's the expert on dog man sightings, I'm sure you're familiar with her if you put together podcasts without that topic, she thinks that one might be that some of these might be misidentified dog men. I kind of take the stance maybe some of these dog men are misidentified goat men. If you really think about it, they do have a lot of physical similarities. Sure. I don't know which it might be or if it's another a or b, and it's something entirely different, but, yeah, it is interesting that so many of these things, sightings of these two creatures occur not that far from each other here in the midwest. Well, yeah, it's always been unique to me, but ours the one thing I didn't like about our goat man lore down, it's called the poplick monster. They say that he lives by this trestle, and he coax you. And they say that they have telepathic. Yeah, telepathic and stuff of that nature. The law around it changes from person to person, and it's like they say. So, in your kind of research, what do you kind of think that these creatures are? Do you think these are just lost in time? Or, like ours say that there was a farmer, he had a drought, he couldn't get, like, his crop to grow. That's where he made the deal with the devil. Yeah, he made the deal with the devil. He said that he killed his goats. And then I guess you know how those stories go. The devil tricks him, and he turns them into a goat man. And I always hear these goat men having axes. Why do they have axes? Do they just hey, let's just grab an axe. Well, see, it's interesting that you told me a version you just told me because I never actually heard that. Because that's the great thing about these creatures is I don't do the folklore around them as being separate from the sightings, because the folklore is completely unbelievable. I mean, the version you just told me sounds like a campfire story, and I've never heard that story. The stories that I found in my research was an escaped circus creature who had these supernatural powers and caused a train wreck and escape to live under the trenches. And then another version was much less family friendly version where this it's the mutant offspring of some farmer and his sheep.

Participant #1:
Of course, you guys probably know that the pope book monster goes by goat man and sheep man, depending on who's talking. The thing about the folklore is and there's multiple stories surrounding me, and they're all very far fetched, and I think it's the beast of Billowack out in Southern California. His origin story is basically the same as Captain America's, except he's a goat man and not Captain America. It's very obvious that that stuff isn't true at all. There's, like, a grain of truth maybe in there, buried somewhere deep. But as to what people are seeing, I think there's, like, a couple of possibilities. I mean, there's a fact maybe it's misidentified a creature some variety. As I mentioned earlier, when the godly thinks that a couple of the sightings in the Midwest might be misidentified dog men. Like one of the more famous versions of the creature, the Goat Man of Buoy in Buoy, Maryland, which is now a suburb of Washington, DC. Most of those sightings are thought to be Bigfoot sightings. And in the case of that particular creature, the vast majority of sightings in Maryland seem like a bigfoot creature. I don't have any that was bad traits or anything like that. Something that I mentioned earlier today when we were kind of prepping and talking about this. We've been excited to talk to you all day. I just hope you know that. Okay, thank you. I read a story about it was another story that happened here in Kentucky about a farm, a family farm that was being basically harassed by what a lot of us believe was a Bigfoot. And one of the stories was, well, this thing was caught carrying off goats. It was caught carrying off pigs. And then I started thinking my imagination maybe ran wild, but couldn't we be seeing a Sasquatch that's made himself a goat helmet, a goat face man? I don't know. Yeah, well, there is some validity, at least as far as the Maryland creature because there's I feel terrible because I'm blanking on the name of the book. It's an amazing book written by Markup Sassnak, who's the authority on the Goat Man of Buoy. But that book has hundreds of sightings in it all around the Buoy, Maryland area. And they're all primarily Bigfoot top creatures. And when you somebody says they saw a goat man in that area and every sighting describes a Bigfoot, maybe there's something to that. But the problem I have with Attributing, one I missed because, Go man is a problematic creature because he's so strange. There's nothing like him that ever existed in the fossil record. He has human life intelligence. As I said earlier, the Wisconsin sighting that I first recorded for my book that's got the whole ball rolling on my project, he spoke English, and that doesn't make any sense at all from a zoological standpoint. So when you try to I kind of get the idea of people when I try to explain away goat man, just something slightly I hate to refer to Bigfoot as mundane. It's an amazing creature, but it's zoologically possible. But the problem with that is Bigfoot hasn't been proven to exist. So it doesn't satisfy me. And to backtrack a little bit, because the third possibility is what these things are as opposed to a misidentified creature or something along those lines, is that they could be some sort of sort of supernatural creature. And the problem with that, obviously, is supernatural creatures such as other dimensional beings or demons or spirits, those things haven't been proven to exist either. But the thing about goat man is the sightings of the creature where someone stands up and says, I saw this, and it's a credible person. And they have so much to lose by coming forward, because I think I've mentioned in my book that it's almost socially acceptable to say I saw UFO or bigfoot or Pediator or something like that. They're so ingrained in pop culture. But when you say you open yourself up to a lot of ridicule yeah. Why would you basically bet your life on the story if you didn't have skin in the game at that point? Yeah, I mean, I get the idea that maybe some of them could be pranks and people don't realize what can happen when the prank gets out of control. Right. But for the most part, there's a lot of sightings that don't fit a prank or don't match up with some misidentification. And these things they always exhibit when they're described as having some good life and human life amalgamation features, they always exhibit some sort of supernatural ability, something that really can't be explained. Bigfoot, he makes all these whistles and grunts. Some of the eastern bigfoot sightings are as problematic as goatman and that they appear to be bulletproof or can teleport or something. But classic bigfoot sighting, he behaves like a primate would. But goat man, sometimes he speaks English. Sometimes people hear him talking to them in their head, like you said with the pope lake monster. Yes. Allegedly has this telepathic ability. Right? And then there was a sighting out at white rock lake in Dallas, I believe. Nick redford, who is an amazing writer and researcher, I think he uncovered this one first where this lady said she was jogging and she felt this overwhelming sense of panic, like she was having an anxiety attack. She looked over to some direction and saw this creature and smiled at her and just appeared in a flash of light.

Participant #1:
He's kind of a dick, I'm being honest. Well, you see, it's interesting you mentioned that, because people say he looks like a seder or fawn. And these are mythological creatures, the fawn and the seder sort of they have different physical characteristics in folklore. One is the greek version, one is the roman version. But they both serve the same sort of function in mythology, where they are nature spirits. They're always seen around nature, and they always do sort of jerky things like you're pointing out, because they're tricksters, like the god pan or the godfauness they're trickster gods. The word pan excuse me, the word panic is actually derived from pan's name because supposedly if you stumbled upon pan out in the forest and you disturbed him, you would be overcome with this panic that would cause you to run recklessly over cliffs and into trees and kill yourself, essentially. And this lady felt like she was having a panic attack, and then she looked over and saw this thing. So if there's any truth to mythology at all, the behavior of these goatmen really do sort of sync up with what you read about in Greek and Roman mythology, since these things are yeah. And they're always seen primarily in the United States. They're always seen in places that are make out spots, parking spots, a party spot. And these as far as sailors'go in Greek mythology, they always hung out with the godformed diocese, and they were particularly lusty creatures. They always were chasing around female nature spirits called nymph and even human women. So if these things do exist, it would make sense that they would hang out at a place like this. Do we have any witnesses out there who's a female who's actually been approached by it? I think that would be groundbreaking. I'm trying to think that you bring it up,

Participant #1:
witnesses who came forth. I do know the very first major sighting out in Fort Worth where the lake Worth monster was seen in 69. That thing accosted a group of four individuals, two couples who were parked out at the lake, and supposedly it reached through the window and tried to grab one of these men's wives. Oh, wow. I guess she pointed out that is something that's happened. I do know a lot of the witnesses have come forward or mail, but there were at least two women in that car. And of course, the Lakeworth monster. That version go man, he's described as looking like some kind of hairy primate, but with kind of goat like features and fish scales, actually, like silver kind of scales. It's the hottest of all the description. A lot of the subsequent sightings that we're seeing in some of the photographs of this version of the creature, almost undoubtedly pictures of people who are perpetrating a hoax were kind of an albino bigfoot. It doesn't mean that all the sightings of this albino bigfoot creature out of lake Worth were hoaxes, but if you go online and google the Lakeworth monster and look at these pictures of this white creature, you'll see that it's too good to be true. It definitely looks a man in suit just waiting to be photographed. Okay. Yeah. But seen a lot of that stuff over the last month or two just from research. And the interesting fact to it about the lake Worth monster is some researchers out there actually offered thousands of dollars in rewards for somebody who could step forward years after the fact and prove that they had been a part of the hoax. I'd say about a half dozen different people at least that came forward out there saying they did this or that with the hoax. But no one stepped forward to claim that money. All they had to do was pass a lie detector test, I believe, and prove that they were the Lake Worth monster. And you would think that as far as a hoax goes, where it's something where I don't think there's even any criminal charges against anyone. If it was to be very small, why wouldn't you step forward and claim this reward? Yeah, why not? That's something that's interesting. I've always like the hoaxes that everybody says that no matter what it is, it could be Bigfoot Dog Man, the Goat Man. They always say, like, oh, that's a hoax, that's a hoax. But like, some of these sightings are like, deep in the woods or somewhere, like off the beaten path. You literally had to know for a fact where that person was going to be or of something that sort to just like, are you really going to sit out there for hours? Just like, there's somebody going to come, I know it, I know it. Somebody's going to come. Yes. Some of them I know that are the fact that some of these sightings are too good to be true and some of them have been hoaxes. Again, I'm not saying that the Lakeworth monster was all hoaxes, but a place like that, especially like places we'll go in, it is supposedly seem it's a place where, you know, people will be late at night. Because when I was actually researching my book, when I went to one of the locations where Goat Man is seen here, Gatman Road was in Wisconsin, there were a couple of cars parked and I could see where they're knuckles. A lot of these places are still active places to be away from prying eyes. So I can see how someone would want to know, hey, let's go prank there. But I do know of one example here where one of the teachers here in town told me that one of the sightings here, the sighting didn't get written about my book, but one of his students was doing some project and got a little too ambitious and dressed up like, oh, these hoaxes do happen. They all don't. The kind of stuff you're talking about are the ones where someone's just tracing through the middle of the wilderness and they encounter one something strange being a Goat Man or a Bigfoot. And there are some goatman sightings where, I mean, they don't happen in places where you know there's going to be people. But the more difficult thing about it is with goatman, most of the goatman sightings are seen in suburbia. And granted, you're going to know that there are going to be people who are around to see you. Yeah, also going to be people who are going to be around to see you hoaxing. It might be possible to get somebody to slip out and get rid of your costume or whatever you're doing, but some of these things, like for instance, Nick Redford siding. Nick Redford. Documented out of White Rock Lake in Dallas. It was a jogging trail. Lake. White Rock Lake is like right outside of Dallas. There's a lot of people go there all the time and this thing vanished in front of this woman's eyes. So it was obviously somebody who just ducked behind the tree and ditched the costume. So you do have sightings that defy being hopeful. I have a hard time thinking in my view of suburbia, is you can't even mow your lawn without twelve people knowing that you're mowing your lawn. So how would someone put together a hoax in the middle of suburbia and get away with it unless they had a lot of neighbors in on it? That to me is kind of strange. Like you said, out in the middle of the woods, it's easy to give somebody the slip if you're prepared and good at it. But right there

Participant #1:
in the middle of the night to get some snack or something, he's standing by his refrigerator looking at the window. I believe first he actually heard gunshots, but he lives on a farm in rural Wisconsin and he thought it was neighbor shooting at coyotes, which is a very common thing. He looked out his window expecting to see coyotes run past and while he saw instead it was like a four foot highish, maybe five foot highish creature running very quickly through very deep snow. And it was on 2ft and had like a horse's like head, a horse like that. Excuse me. And of course when it's dark and something has like a long snout was it a horse? Was it a goat man? Was it something else? But this is very near where people say they see goat man. This thing jumped over a very large snow bank as what had previously been running on a snowmobile trail outside his home and jumped on his incredibly high snowbank and disappeared into the woods. That was a lot harder to explain too, because you either have somebody who's very vertical challenge or a child or something, and they're running from gunshots and running very well deep snow and jumping across big banks of snow. Again, that's another one which is really hard to explain.

Participant #1:
Yes, it's pretty wild just hearing all the different folklore and then weeding through them to get the actual sightings. You must have had your work cut out for you when you were working on this book. How many witnesses total did you end up getting to talk to? Well, the folklore from the sidings, I did separate the two, but I left them both in the book because I really view it as like a two pronged subject. Because you have the stories where in Southern California, where he's a failed super soldier experiment by not the scientists, which is the real story, that they say it's true, and then the Yelp man abuya, where he's a mutant animal who is like a failed cure for cancer or something. They all have axes. And then the Pope with monster there's like the three that we already mentioned for him. But then you have these other side where it's a lot like your bigfoot site or UFO sighting, where someone sees something, they come forward with it. And here's the information. And a lot of the sightings that are really kind of exciting, credible sounding sightings, they occur in locations where I have been unable to find, like a dope and folktale like the soldier story. So I kind of did a two pronged attack on it. And as for how many people I talked to, I'm going to be honest. There's not a lot of people in the past who came forward with sightings. The folk were greatly outnumbered. Yeah, but the sightings that people came forward with are just so incredible. And so, as I mentioned earlier, you have a lot to lose when you say you saw these things. Sure. So a lot of sightings are they're decades apart? Some took place a couple of centuries ago, some took place a century ago, some play took place 70 years ago, 30 years ago, a lot of in the 70s. So it was difficult to track down a lot of the eyewitnesses. But I did talk to close to half a dozen. I haven't worked on that, so I'm having trouble remembering the exact number. But I just talked to about a half dozen contemporary eyewitnesses who had some very interesting stories, and some of them were very Dope. Manlike one individual, the individual I interviewed who was from the Jeffersonville area where, you know, the Pope would monster supposed to haunt there in Kentucky, he described a classic bigfoot sighting, although it did take place, he saw the creature twice. It was an albino, bigfoot like creature. And both times he saw it hanging around under or climbing on a bridge. Not the Pope trestle like in the legend, but near there in that vicinity and hanging around bridges. So some of them corroborate the physical traits of the creature and others corroborate that something strange seems to live in the area near where these stories occur. Out of all the ones that you've heard, is there any that just jump out at you as soon as you hear it? Are you just on board with it? The story comes to you and then you read it or talk to the person and you're like, wow. Even if you have to suspend like a critical mind for a moment, you just believe them or you believe that they believe it. I mean, have you been hit like that by talking to somebody? I don't think I talked to anyone, at least as far as someone who made it into the book, where I had doubts about there, that they believe they saw it. I always approach it. And this is something if I really believe that they believe what they're saying. I believe that this person has had a legitimate experience telling me the story. I always do leave open the fact that maybe it was a misinterpretation of events or something along those lines. And I have had out and out where total BS had emails where people you could tell it was like a 14 year old kid, right. And putting lots of jokes in it, right? Okay, this just gets deleted. But as far as all the stories that I've heard, though, where I know it's not just someone who's like, oh, yeah, Bigfoot attacked my buddy in the bar parking lot, which is a real story that I got from someone. I don't think the kid who wrote it was all about the Drake judges. But when it's not something like that, it is something where I am, here's what happened. Here's what happened. To the best of my recollection, they all kind of blow my hair back. Because imagine seeing these things, whether it's misidentification or not, because someone asked me what would I do if I saw goatman, I believe that actually the question was, do I believe in goat, man? And my go to answer to that is that I'd have to see it to believe it. But the whole 100% that it's not maybe an all misidentification, but if I did see it, I don't know what I would do if I saw it. Because seeing it would be a life changing, reality altering thing. Because you're like, okay, this exists. So what else exists? What's going on? What is this? What did I just see? So many doors just open for that. Because now your brain is like, now you're going to go home. And like, okay, what else did I see? Because there's sometimes you're going down the road, especially when you're like, because how long have you been in the paranormal? And just, like, looking for these unexplained things for how long you've been into it? You probably have seen something that kind of made you, like, question something, but then actually seeing something down the road, you're like, that could have been real too. Yeah, a lot of tricks on your mind, too. I've been interested in this stuff as, like, just an enthusiast would be the right word. I was very young. My family shy about talking about strange phenomenon around me, whether they believed or not, depending on what day it was. And then I've been researching as professional as you can research this sort of thing. Sure

Participant #1:
there's not a real diploma you can get for a lot of this stuff. So I've been researching and investigating in 2011, I don't want to say professionally, but that's when I start referring to myself as researchers, investigators, as an enthusiastic myself, years ago, used to go out and do investigations just privately for friends of friends and things like that. And it was always because I was interested. And there were strange things that did happen, and everything kind of culminated to one single event where there was something very strange had happened to me. I haven't yet told about it, talked about it on the podcast, but my daughter, who was very interested in the paranormal, actually asked me, she goes, what's it like to go out there and investigate this stuff? And I described it to her that after you get done, you pay attention to the shadows that move a lot more than you do beforehand. It really changes your perspective. You start noticing everything critically and trying to figure out why it's happening and all that. And the reason I even mentioned that I had been doing investigations and research is because I do want to point out that I think that is a possibility. I can't say 100% that he's real, because, like I said, I haven't experienced it myself. But I do believe in supernatural because I have had experiences with ghosts and things of that nature. And interestingly enough, these experiences occurred to me when I was on an investigation. I saw a woman's face floating in the air. I was just walking through a nature trail and actually in Kentucky at Mammoth Cave National Park. And it's the kind of thing where we're talking about what would it be like to see go, man? It really shook me because I'm like, I just saw that now. What? It's never left me. I can tell you exactly what this woman's face is like to this day. It wasn't a face of anyone familiar with me, but I feel like I know her now because her face is plain in my head, and my mother's, she'll never be able to forget it. So I do believe that when people say, I saw a goat man standing by a pond and there was a flash of light disappeared, okay, maybe you did see that. Can we prove it right that particular instance, we can't. But these sightings still need to be looked into. They need to be documented. There needs to be some literature out there to keep track of this sort of stuff in our home. Yeah, I noticed years ago when I was doing research, this was back for anybody who listens to this podcast. We used to use film for our cameras, and the film went into the camera, and then your picture went on to the film. And I had three cameras that I would switch off with when I went to places. And for a good two years, I had the same dark, shadowy apparition appearing over a span of 39 pictures. And I got to the point where I kept switching cameras because I'm like, okay, it's something wrong with the camera. So I switched out cameras, and I get to a different one, and I go to a different place, and it all happened. It started up here at the Beverly Hills Club, if you're familiar with that. It's a club that burnt down years ago. A lot of people tragically perished in it and it's a very active site. I'm not condoning anyone to go there without permission. We had permission at the time. All I'm saying is it's really active and if it doesn't make your hair stand up, I don't know what will. Yeah, I mean, I've gone to places that we are really haunting and nothing happened. I've spent all night investigating places where you take pictures and talking to mics and you get no evidence, no personal experiences, but then it's the damned thing where we went to, me and my wife. My wife was with me. It wasn't an actual investigation we had been on. We went to Mammoth Cave because we heard it was supposed to be haunted. People said they saw this spectral family of African Americans who might be some of the old guides from the Cave person tour groups. Yeah, and we went on this tour group, saw nothing. And then we decided to get in a quick hike before dark and just the twilight is about to hit. We're walking along, I think it was the Cedar Sink Trail I think is the name of it at. And I saw that face and we were looking forward to that time. My mind on the program like, OK, we're going to see a ghost in a dark place here. I had already put that out of my mind. We were now looking at trees. I was actually my south thing, it was really fall, late summer. This nice breeze was coming through the trees. It was getting to be twilight. Still a lot of light, but getting softer. I'm looking down at these plants, my wife's like, I wonder what kind of plants those are. I don't know what kind of plant anything is. And I'm just kind of sitting there enjoying, standing there enjoying the breeze and staring at these plants as they rustle. That woman's face appeared. She didn't blink. It was like it was like somebody cut someone's face out of an old sepia tone antique photograph, put it right in front of my face and then I saw it for like 2 seconds maybe at max. And actually my brain couldn't register what I would see. It was like, okay, that happened. So I just turned my head trying to catch up to my wife and all of a sudden, wait a minute, a woman's face appeared eight foot from me in front of some plants. And I turned back around, nothing there. And it shook my world and I wasn't even looking for it. Just let my mind go free. And this wasn't like one of those see out pictures where you relax your eyes and you see a sailboat. This is as real as my wife's face had been a second ago. But it had this strange sepia tone to it. It was just like, here, this is like it was from I don't want to say another dimension, but out of time or something. And then it was gone. Just as quick, I actually get a glimpse of someone who had been there. 1900, I don't know, it wasn't something I could interact with. I know that because it didn't seem intelligent vision and it was gone. Well, I don't claim to be psychic or anything along those lines. I have no way to explain what I saw. That's crazy, man. I've heard a lot of things about Bamboo Cave and there's actually a lot of cryptozoology part. They say that there's sasquatches around that area too. I had a weird story that I saw a while back ago that they said that there was a town over that found they used it as a bomb shelter because of our a nuclear fallout and they got trapped in there and they were talking about hills have eyes kind of people there. It's crazy, but some people said that was just a ruse. Somebody just made the story online. But it's still like that's kind of crazy because Mammoth Cave is really big,

Participant #1:
it's enormous, and there are parts of it that I mean, we only went down through a little portion of it because there's various versions of the tour. It's a legitimate fact that the natives used to go in there years before European settlers ever came and left, like the bodies of their loved ones there to mummify. And those bodies have been desecrated. And then there was that failed tuberculosis hospital that was built in Mammoth Cave, where tourists because it was one of America's first ever tourist attraction. We're talking like I don't want to say the dates. And I'll get it. Wrong. But back before, you would think there were tourists, and they just walked up and found dead bodies and these poor tuberculosis patients laying on the rocks because they didn't survive, oddly enough, living in a cave. The spirits of the slaves who were guides there or seen because there used to be an African American church inside that cave. And then as far as cryptozoology goes at Mammoth Cave, that trail we walked on, we kept going after I saw that face and we got down there to actually see where the water goes into the earth formed cave. And it was like something in the Lord of the Rings. It was just like a fantasy, man. It was so beautiful. I didn't think something like that existed. Not very far from where I live, hours from Kentucky normally, but it was like I stepped in the west. I could definitely see some strange creature living there. We actually almost stumbled onto a bear on our way back, so I'd seen the ghost face. We had walked and saw this incredible formation. We're walking back and this crazy old man comes running up to us and he's like, did you see my poodle go by here? I didn't see the poodle he's like, well, she's chasing the bear. I'm like, this guy is this guy lost his mind. He's trying to scare us. A poodle chasing a bear. And his granddaughter, his daughter was with him, and she kind of rolled her eyes like, can you believe in and so we walk on, like, 100ft in there in the trail. Huge, fresh bear print.

Participant #1:
That's a memorable trip. That was a memorable trip there. Like, you probably had the best tour there. I'm kind of jealous of it. My third grade trip to mammoth cave kind of sucked a little bit in comparison. We went into the cave tour. I was impressed with the cave. Yeah, but there were so many people on the tour because so many people want to see it. It was so packed. Ambience to it. But what happened after that? When I'm just out wandering around through the national park, I'll never forget it's definitely something that people need to go see whenever these national parks are open again. I don't know if any of them are open right now with the pandemic, but definitely some time ago, mammoth cave at some point in your life. So, nathan, I got a question for you. Is there any goat man related locations or, you know what, just in general, paranormal or just cryptozouid locations that you've heard about that you haven't got a chance to get to yet? And would any of them stand out enough to make it on a bucket list? Is there anything out there that's just calling to you? There's so many. I mean, I'm not one of the bigfooters. I don't profess to be have any extensive knowledge of those. But I'd love to go out pacific northwest. I don't think I have it in me to actually wander into the wilderness out there because it is actual wilderness. But I do want to at least do the touristy stuff that's safe for someone like me who doesn't have any survival skills to go. I'm a big fan of the film willow creek, and I don't want to go into the woods there just in case the sad watch do drag me away. I want to go see the folks on the the bigfoot burger and all that sort of stuff. And this isn't really exciting, but I definitely want to get out to lauren coleman's international cryptozoology museum in maine. And maine has such rich paranormal folklore. I'm sure there's a million things I could do out there. Yes, I'd like to get to. These are kind of cliche, but I'd like to go see a lot in this. I'd like to see if he shows up or any of that sort of thing, given enough time. I'm sure I can think of dozens of places those are straight to mind right now. Every time I read about a phenomenon or a creature, I'm like, loveland, ohio is not that far. Let's go look for that thing. Yeah, absolutely. Let's go look for that squad. Pacific Northwest also somewhere like Washington or Portland to dig into that one yet. Let's go see that. I did finally get one out of my bucket list, so I wanted to go to point pleasant because the mothman fascinates me. Yes, sir. And I didn't get to do any research there because there was this thing where I was visiting friends. Tight schedule. I got a dip down to point pleasant, so I got my picture next to the giant statue book and everything else. I drove across the silver bridge, and it didn't collapse, luckily. But I'd like to get back and do some more. I'd like to actually visit the actual TNT area where the first siding occurred and do some legitimate research there. I'd like to do something more there than be a tourist. That is definitely a can of worms that we're hoping to open here on the podcast eventually. Really excited for that one. I kind of wanted to jump back real quick, like you said, that you've actually been to some of these people that you interview for your book. Have you ever been to any other ones that kind of like I guess it just made you feel uneasy. It was more than the other ones. It just seemed like there was something going on around here, but you really didn't seem much you mean like places that I investigated? Yeah, places. Been at the location. Have you been to most of the places that you've encounters that you've heard of? Well, a lot of my investigation I haven't done a lot of investigations in places where cryptozoological creatures have been sighed, because, like I said, with goatman. Actually, I did visit several public locations, places here in Wisconsin, but as I said earlier, with go, man, a lot of those things happen in suburbia. It's like, how do you investigate that? A lot of these things happen. I actually did visit Buoy, Maryland, and where those sightings occurred, it used to be now it's like suburbs and strip malls. Like, I went to one place that were a very famous sighting happened, and it was a strip mall. You can't really investigate that on the strip mall. Yeah, I drove by. I'm like, look, there's where it happened. There's like an empty blockbuster there now or something. But most of the places I've investigated have been in southeast Wisconsin. They've been places that have ghost activity. I don't get a lot of calls to investigate places where people have seen, like, a cryptozoological creature, because a lot of stories are I was driving down the road and this thing walked out in front of me, and then I'll go drive down that road, but usually walked out from private property, and you can't really investigate. Yeah, but I've done a lot of ghost investigations, and the very first investigation I went on, like, an actual investigation and not like a tourist trip. I got this really sick feeling in this one spot where Shadow Creature and I actually got an EVP that night. We were down in the basement and a walkietalkie with no batteries and started talking and they heard this voice speaking in German. This just took place after they inherited their grandfather's World War II uniform. So we were down in the basement and they're guiding us around. And it sounds like you guys have been in some investigations. When you talk during an EVP session, you're supposed to mention in the recording if you cough or sneeze or say something. That way when you listen to it three weeks later, you know it was you and our ghost, right? And so my co investigator, Mike, he was talking and talking to the client, and I was getting irritated talking again. He's clear across the room. And then nothing happened, you know, that night other than I got sick upstairs. Later inexplicably listening to the EVP, like two later. And after I say that's, Mike talking again, you hear Mike and the other person is in the room with us talking. And then over top of them, you hear somebody go so I'm like, that's why I called my gun played for I'm like even the ghost thing to you were annoying. People listen to that. But yeah, so that's one. And then this was again something I did as a tourist because it was originally going to be an investigation, but other people in my group, the Paranormal Investigation Research Society, they ended up having to cancel. And we were coming to Kentucky again. Most of my best stories are about Kentucky. I live in there like three, four times.

Participant #1:
Kentucky is great. I got to get back. And then we were at Way Hills, probably the most famous haunting way, really. Hills. Hills, yeah. It was supposed to be an investigation, a lot of money, and I wasn't going to be able to put it all in. And we're going to split like six ways or something. And it's just too big a place for one person to walk around with some equipment and investigate properly. You need a team for it. Like two football fields or something that places one big arms, that's for sure. Yeah. So we went there and I got to see it while I'm there. This was like the day after or is it the day after? The day before. I had my experience at Name of Cave, but I don't remember the chronology of events. But we went there, me and my wife, just this tourist, the ghost tour, night tour, and walking around being told all the stories and showing all the places. And again, I got really sick there. And it was in this room. It was when they take you away for people don't know, it was originally thought that fresh air was good for tuberculosis patients. That's why it's an open air hospital. And they would put the patients that they hoped would recover in front of these massive windows, get all this fresh air. And then they lost hope for you. They moved into the back of the hospital because they kind of gave up on you. We were in one of those rooms, and I believe it was the room of Lois Higgs, who's a very famous young woman who well, she's famous for dying tragically and dying young. There tuberculosis. She's been attributed to some phenomenal, several shows, maybe ghost adventures in one of those shows. And I got really sick when I was standing there. And then later the next day excuse me. The next morning, I get out of the shower, left Waverley Hills, hills late. We just got in off the road, just fell out of sleep. So I get up the next day, I take a shower. I'm walking out of the bathroom, toweling off my wife, like, oh, my God, what happened to your shoulder? And I have all these scratch marks on my shoulder and something I read, and I think it was weird. Kentucky. I was reading it on the trip down. That one of the writer of that book, it had happened to them when they were hills. My God, it happened to me. And I don't think Lois Higgs would have done that because she's a nice spirit. One of the tolls. There's some really negative things there. So that's kind of a place where I didn't capture any evidence. I saw things, felt things, had things happen to me as far as, like, scratches. But I can't show someone a picture, like, here's the ghost of scratching. So that's the place where I know something is going on. Yeah, absolutely. I'm always skeptical of these haunts where give us $300, you can investigate, but I think Waverly Hills is a good one. Yeah, I was going to add to what you said there. Waverley is where I received my scratches years ago. Oh, really? I guess we're on the same club. I think we're scratch bros now.

Participant #1:
That's a little bit of a weird coincidence. I've had scratches on three different occasions, and none of them I never get scratched in the fact that it happened there at a place where it's supposed to happen and I felt ill. Yeah, like I said, I'm not a psychic or anything. I don't profess to be. But when something like that happens, it makes you take notice. There's a chance maybe something else happened to my shoulder on the way down, maybe scraping my backpack or something. But it sure looks like scratches. If people are interested that articles up on if you just Google Cult of Weird.com and go, in fact, Waverly Hills, okay. In your Google search, that will pop right up. It actually gets a lot of traffic on that site because there's a photograph of some evidence there, and that's something that's not as common as it should be for these types of phenomena. It is interesting I received scratches down the front of my chest. And after investigating Bobby Mackey's, which I'm sure you're familiar with that name oh, yeah. That's a place that has to be on season one of any paranormal show that's ever been broadcast. It's become a go to. And I was investigating it with my old team that I used to run with, and it was before it really blew up. And we heard some stories. We heard the black dog stories in there. There was a couple of little weird things that had happened, one I'm not so sure about. When I think back of it, I'm like, I'm almost sure I handed a cigarette to someone who wasn't there. And then on another occasion, as I was going into the basement with my team, I didn't bump into anything. I wasn't the guy that was climbing into stuff. We had another guy that would do that. He would climb down into the basement, into the well, and climbing over stuff. That wasn't me. I was patient. I was looking for details. I was calculating. And yet when we get out of there, the next day, I wake up, and I've got scratches down the front of my chest, and I'm like, I wasn't drinking. I wasn't doing anything. I wanted to have a clear mind. I wanted to be very conscious of my movements and the things I did. How the hell did this happen? And that messed with me for a while. Yeah, I mean, when something happens to you physically, I mean, feeling a little nauseous or anxious or something is one thing, but then when you're like, oh, did something actually assault me? It gives you a whole other sort of outlook on it. Yeah. I mean, 99.9% or even a greater percentage than that of the places I've investigated, they have, like, ghosts and hauntings attributed to them. Nothing happens, or it does happen. It's nothing threatening. It's just creepy or unusual, because, like I said, that's the only time I've been scratched that does happen. I'm like, oh, okay. There's a new side of this. It's wild. I walked outside. We were halfway through the night at Bobby Mackey's. People were actually there was a big group upstairs in the place doing their thing. We were allowed to just kind of do what we wanted throughout the lower levels of the place. And at one point, I was like, man, I got to get out of here for a minute. I was like, I'll be back in a few. I'm going to just step out and have a smoke and just clear my head, get some fresh air. It's a dingy basement for anybody out there that's ever been in it. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. It's your atypical basement that's been unkempt for a long time. So I walk out of investigation and bar base. I went outside, and I kind of went around the building away from the parking lot. I was trying to get away from people, and I kind of stood at the corner next to the road, and I just kind of lit a cigarette. And a man is just standing there. And he says, hey, can I get one of those? And I'm sure, here you go. And then I start talking, thinking that I'm just kind of passively conversating with this guy. I'm like, oh, yeah, we're kind of messing around in the basement, taking pictures and things. I turn to look, and there's just no one there. And I'm like, where the hell did he go? And I wasn't looking for him. I actually walked down over the hill towards the other side of the building, and I thought, well, this dude just took off. He just took off running or something. And I'm like, I didn't hear nothing. And he was this close, so I don't know what happened there, but man, it was weird. It was really weird. I've had that sort of thing kind of happen to me. I have a bad habit of looking in my rearview mirror a lot, especially when there's cars behind me or tailgate me. There's been a couple of times where I'm staring at these guys. I'm like, get off my rear end. Why are you guys back there? Why are you in such a hurry? Why don't you go around? Then you look down 1 second just to check your speedometer, and you look back up, and they're not there. It's like, was there even a road they could turn on? Very unsettled. There's been a time or two where I'm, like, convinced that maybe that wasn't really a car. Yeah, when somebody's there that they're not, you can't rationalize it. It really kind of shakes you up. Okay, well, we're kind of kind of wrapping up right here, but we have a couple of ending questions here for you. So I kind of wanted to in your belief, we kind of went over through the whole Goat man and the paranormal side of it, well, supernatural. So in your kind of words and your belief, if it's real, if you ever found that proof, do you feel like it's more it's not a cryptozoology, it's not a lost time, like animal and time? Are you leaning more to the supernatural side, like the spiritual entity? Would you say that? Well, I think that if it ever is found to be improving somehow to be real and it's going to put up a big can of worms because it's going to be like, I don't think it's a demon. I don't think it's panic, like, in a lot of these stories, because these sort of sightings that they happen in Europe, it's like, oh, so and so saw seater down by the old Roman road, which is I do documents in European Seder sightings at the start of Goatman, and I think that it is definitely going to be something from mythology. Maybe not necessarily some sort of nature spirit, but definitely something that would be in the context of the supernatural. Something that would have to reclassify the way we view the world. Like OK, maybe these sailors are real, maybe they do wander in and out from some other I don't know if dimension is the right word, but maybe they can't make themselves known to us in fleeting ways and maybe we just see them on accident or maybe they are messing with us. I think it will be something like that. I don't know how, given what science is at the moment, how you could ever prove that to be true, but again, doesn't exist in the fossil record. Possibility. These things exhibit human intelligence and sometimes they speak English or they have telepathy or they vanish. It's definitely going to be something paranormal. So if it ever is proven somehow to exist, it would be like saying, okay, we proved ghost surreal. It would be groundbreaking. Yeah, absolutely. Nathan, I have a two part question here that's coming from I'm a fan of yours and I hope this doesn't offend you in any way. Is there any chance of an audiobook version of your books? If I could figure out how to do that, because the book is as self published, because I'm a very impatient person, but if I could figure out how to do that properly and have someone feel free, that would definitely be something I wanted to have happen. Because I don't like my voice at all. I rarely ever listen to these podcasts I'm on just because I hear my voice, I cringe. It's probably not as bad as it sounds to me, to other people, but I hate it. So if I could find someone who had that nice professional audiobook voice, if I could afford James Earl Jones

Participant #1:
I was just about to ask like hey, if there's tryouts I went in, I want to try. The thing is too, I don't know how well the entire book would sound read aloud because I try to make it a book that tells a story and leads you from one chapter to the next. But then a lot of it is there's a lot of source sighting, a lot of facts and places and dates and names of periodicals. I don't know how well it sounds to have the whole thing read out loud to you. I'm definitely not opposed to the idea of it. If I can, I'll set up a recorder and I'll read a chapter and I'll send it to you. You can tell me like hey, this sucks, or hey, we might have something here. But the other part of the question, I mean, audiobooks are very popular. It's probably helpful to get a lot of people who normally wouldn't read it exposed to the material. It's definitely something I've considered from time to time. But is there any new books on the horizon and can we have. A hint. I have several books right now that I start and then abandoned for various reasons. I'm working on a book about circus and clown themed hauntings and unexplained sightings in folklore. That's one that I don't know why I keep getting distracted from it, because when I sit down and I write a chapter, I'm in love with it. And then it takes me a while to get back in the right frame to do the research and do the writing. I've also was trying to do another book similar to Go Man. I've completed a couple of chapters to that, two chapters of that, that sort of stalled out. In the meanwhile, I've been writing about things that aren't really supernatural. I've been writing a lot of articles for Scary Monster magazine, which is a classic horror film magazine, although a couple of those were actually a couple of those articles were actually paranormal. I was thinking about it, but one is like about folklore from when I was living in northeast Georgia, teen and a child. And then another article was an excerpt about the poplic monster taken from Goat Man and slightly updated and rewritten. Okay, so people want to see I want to read a newer edition of that public Monster, not article but chapter from the goatman book. You can obtain an issue of Scary Monsters that has it. I don't know the issue number right now, but it was an issue from 2019. So yeah, that's a good way to get some new goatman content. Heck yeah. And what advice would you give to anyone who's had an experience? And if they're out there right now and they're listening to this and they say to theirselves, wow, I've seen this thing, what advice could you give them? I want to tell them to come forward, but I also want to tell them to be aware of what will happen when you do come forward. I mean, you'll tell a story to someone like me, 500 people read it and I'll be the end of it. But there's always that chance that something you say that deciding will become famous. Maybe some producer, because television producers scaling internet, people who say they have these sightings, they contact these people because they didn't content for their shows, paranormal shows. Basically. The Travel Channel is just paranormal now, so they need eye witnesses. Sometimes when you come forward, you will get a lot of attention. I'm not going to say anything negative is going to become of it, but it's a very common thing for people who do come forward. They get a lot of attention and they just shrink away because they're tired of dealing with it. Sure, yeah. I definitely want to tell people to come forward though, because I want to know this stuff, document it. It's important. If any of this stuff is ever going to be proven, there needs to be that body of recorded evidence, whether it be some children show or a book or a podcast. Yeah, it's the only way we're ever going to make it. Yeah, I mean, right now it's probably the safest it's ever been to come forward with one of these stories because it is such a pop culture phenomenon right now. All the ghosts and cryptozoology shows and UFO shows are so popular. I think right now is the time when you're going to get the least strange looks coming forward. So definitely I want to encourage people to come forward

Participant #1:
to me. I saw that face on that trail at Mammoth Cave and for me, it was too incredible to not tell people. So I know there's a lot of people out there when they see this, like they need to tell someone. There's that need. I can speak from the other side of it where I've had an extremely startling experience and for years I didn't say anything and I didn't come out. And it doesn't change anything by keeping it a sacred either. It doesn't really go away. It doesn't get easier to remember, if anything, it just makes you question yourself and question, did I make this up? Did this really happen to me? What is going on? It causes a big conflict also. So we even encourage people who want to tell us their story to even just email it to us anonymously and we'll read it and we'll just go from there just to get it. Yeah, definitely is also definitely a way to go. The only problem with that is like, okay, well, this guy just made it up and said it's the only drawback to that. But I would rather get an anonymous story because when someone comes to me with a story and I always ask them before I write a blog or put it in an article or a book, like, you want to remain anonymous. So, yeah, definitely I get wanting to share and also not wanting to have people show up at your doorstep because I'm sure that's happened where riders just show up on Announcement, some famous eyewitnesses door. Yes, I get that. It's definitely an option to go get that information out there. Please. Well, Nathan, thank you for joining us on this episode. I would like to kind of extend an olive branch here and would love to have you back on because it seems like not only your research on the Goat Man is awesome, but you have a lot of paranormal experiences that I definitely would like on other episodes. So, yeah, thanks for again, thanks for being on podcast. We're really big fans of yours. Thank you. Just knowing you're out there doing what you're doing, man, it's awesome. And I'm totally going to encourage every other fan I meet of yours to absolutely bug you about the next book. I can't wait to hear that in the Meantime magazine, because those guys are small press. They definitely need the help. All right, thank you for all the con words, and I would love to be back on. That'd be great. Thank you so much. When this one's launched and it's out there, we'll shoot you a message and say if you decide you do want to hear it and you'll have it and whatever you decide will be great with us. And man I always went to them on my website in the hope that other people enjoy them. I just don't have the gumption to hear them myself. I understand. Yeah, I get you. We totally appreciate it. Man it has been a true pleasure. If you want to if you have any other things that you would like to plug for us to just put on the description of this podcast, just kind of leave me a message and I'll put them on there. Man absolutely. Oh, sure thing. And go. Man flesh or Folklore is available on Amazon.com. Barnesandmobile.com all over the Internet. So all my books are there scary Monsters magazines available at I think it's my moviemonsters.com. I'm sure if the Google scary monsters will come up. All right, thanks. I appreciate it. Thank you, man. We appreciate it. And take it easy and be safe out there. All right? Thank you. Have a nice night. You, too. You too, man. Tyler denny, that was an awesome that was mind blowing. Yeah, mind blowing. To get to talk to him after checking out the book, hearing all about him, seeing him on television. Wow. I mean, I'm literally sitting here right now and I can't get the smile off my face. Yeah, I do. This is amazing. I just, like, the second author on the podcast. Absolutely. I feel like I dropped the ball on the first author. I didn't do my research. David was just so articulate, and I felt like I wasn't intelligent enough to speak to the man. Wow. Nathan oh, my God, I'm so blown away. What's interesting, I know I'm kind of fangirling a little bit here, and I can't help it, is that this is a guy whose research is out there who I mean, personally, like, I've ran across his research many times now just on our continuous search for answers here and to get to talk to The Man. I know other podcasters are doing this longer and they've done it more, and it's not as big a deal, but for me, I'm still on that fan side, so I'm still really excited, and I'm totally going to read a chapter of his book and send it to him. I think you should. Like, your voice is like I want to say, like, don't take this wrong. Okay. James Earl Jones. Yeah. Like denny that's close. Like, you're like, between I think if you want to say it, it's like James Earl Jones for folks at home. He's got me about nine inches below James Earl Jones on the, you know, how high up scale. And that's good enough for me. Morgan Freeman I'd say he's a little bit above you. Well, I mean, it's. Morgan Freeman yeah. That's crazy. I think you should guys at home, if you're listening, these stories are important. They need to be told. They need to be passed down and archived because like I said earlier, there's no way for us to make a science of this without an archive. We must make an archive so that we can find patterns. We need to turn the unexplained into explained. Yeah, that's the mission. That's the mission. I think we've literally joined Nathan's team by doing this. We are part of this world now and we're diving in. I've been a part of this world before and I got out of it because something happened. Yeah. And possibly sometime in this first season, if you're willing, get you over here and let's turn the mics on and I'll just tell the story and let's put it out there. And this will be the first time that I've ever told the story to someone who wasn't their immediately close friend or family. It took me 20 years to tell five people. Yeah. You know what I mean? I understand. I feel like I joined this podcast knowing that I was a skeptic. I don't know a lot of this stuff. I have not had big, big experiences. I think I've saw stuff. But like you were saying beforehand, you don't know when you see that stuff. You have to question yourself. Are you going to say, like most rational people will say, like, I just was seeing stuff or what? Not any of that sort. You don't want to sit there and start like because you're the most to yourself, you're the biggest critic. Absolutely. And you're going to cut yourself down because you're thinking of what other people are going to say. Exactly. So this is a way, like, everybody needs to get it off their chest because no matter what, if it's a big experience, it's going to keep with you for the rest of your life because you're not going to look at the world the same after those kinds of experience. Exactly. So, like, I think you should like I am on board, man. I think you should tell everybody your story and maybe like all of our other listeners that have been on this podcast that will give their stories, we can probably link you with somebody that has the same experience and that would be wonderful. That'd be awesome. Just to be able to talk to someone else who had a similar experience to mine would be fantastic. It would be I mean, that's gold. I don't know what else to say about it. It's peace of mind because you know that I really start that sentence over peace of mind. Yeah, it's peace of mind because come on. When you actually find somebody that has the same experience as you, kind of like sit back and you're like, okay, you can take a deep breath. There's not parts of it, though. The first part is hearing it and then you're like it gets you it shocks you. It's almost like the first thing that happened to you replays while you're hearing someone else say it. Yeah. And then after that, then you can begin to kind of okay, so I'm not crazy. I did experience this because this person is describing it exactly to me. Which brings me to you, listeners. If you have a story, something's happened to you, don't be afraid. Send us your story. If you need to do it anonymously, that's fine. But tell us your story encounters@kyxfiles.com. Don't hesitate. Get it off your chest again. If you want to be anonymous, totally fine with us. You can still come on the podcast. We can match your voice. We can mask your voice. We don't have to tell the name or anything. But at least I feel like I would strongly say kind of like what Nathan was saying. When you do a story that's just sent as anonymous, a lot of people would say, hey, it's made up. But at least somebody that comes on the podcast can keep their name out. Master voice. At least the listeners are hearing somebody tell this story. They can hear the genuine I hate to say this, but the distress in their voice when they're telling the story, they're seeing motions come out. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that will give weight to their story. No matter if no one knows their name, they're at least giving the weight of those words of that encounter. So like he just said, send us your stories. I hope that you can build up some courage and come on the podcast with us. Join this journey with us. Join this team, man. Yeah, join this team. We're going to figure this out. We're going to get you through this. And if we can't get you through this, we're going to find someone else who can. Thank you for listening. We appreciate it. Everybody who subscribed followed everything you've done. Thank you. You've followed us on, what is it? Spotify. You've subscribed to us on itunes. You subscribe to the YouTube channel. Thank you so much. All the encouragement on the Facebook groups we found. Very, very awesome. Everybody who's been helping us so far, we really appreciate it. Somehow I think we're going to be okay and we're going to keep going forward. Yeah. You guys are making it bigger than we ever kind of thought that it would be right now I'm blown away. Yeah, it's awesome. Thank you, guys. I know we say that every podcast, but we made it. But we definitely mean it. We mean it. We're not professionals, but we might be one day. I mean, I don't know. I don't know. We'll see. Hopefully you guys stick with us and keep going and somehow we'll try to make this bigger than it is. I don't know. But it's about that time to tuck you in to listener. You heard the story, the description. The man who is part goat. Maybe not even from this world. When you go out walking in the woods, did you see something? Did you hear something? Or did you imagine it? Somehow I don't think you imagined.